This episode sounds fascinating! Dr. Andrew Hill’s expertise in neurotherapy and the insights gained from quantitative EEG brain mapping provide a unique opportunity for listeners to delve into the intricacies of cerebral operations. Exploring correlations between brain patterns and daily-life symptoms, as well as athletic performance, highlights the profound influence of neural activity on various aspects of our lives.

The discussion on brain injuries and their impact on function adds depth to understanding the fragility of the brain and the importance of cognitive health. Additionally, the potential applications of brain mapping in optimizing athletic performance demonstrate the intersection of neuroscience and sports science.

Concluding with a focus on lifestyle factors that can enhance cognitive capabilities offers practical insights for listeners interested in improving their brain health. Overall, this episode promises to be both informative and thought-provoking, shedding light on the complexities of the human brain and its potential for optimization.

Speaker 1 0:05
Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Curious competitor podcast. Our guest today is a neuroscientist by trade co founder of peak brain based in LA New York City, St. Louis, where am I missing? Dr. Hill? We have London and Stockholm as well. London and Stockholm very well actually, I, Sweden’s been on my summer training list for a while I have a lot of Swedish friends. So maybe I’ll visit the clinic over there. St. Louis would probably be the closest to me, I’m local to Chicago. But I’ve been a part of I did a QE G. Dr. Hole explain a little bit about you know what that means. And I have began my remote neurofeedback training with Dr. Hill and his team, which has been very impressive on the business side, just totally amazed at how turnkey you’ve been able to create that and make smooth, what otherwise can be a pretty clunky process. Dr. Hill, thanks for coming on.

Unknown Speaker 0:52
Of course, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 0:55
So Dr. Hill, when you took a look at my cue EEG we mentioned, we’re talking a little bit off air prior, you had mentioned, you had some findings, which would I guess not be abnormal, but some of the findings were abnormal. So what walk us through kind of what EEG is, and then how my brain was pre was presenting? Sure.

Speaker 2 1:15
So one thing to know about when you’re looking at human focused data is that people are weird. I mean, people are unusual. So good job be weird. First of all, by itself, we don’t really care about some arbitrary metric. It’s always about the context and of its does it serve your goals are something in the way is there a bottleneck etc. So, you know, I’m a cognitive neuroscientist. So I play this trick of putting physiology and performance in contrast, and looking for what sticks out to it’s a performance driven a functional performance driven assessment. But using sort of classic cognitive neuroscience tools, we had to did an executive function test, which is basically being bored for 20 minutes, then then we had you do a resting assessment where we mapped your brain, put a cap on the head, squirt it for the gel, and you sat still, for about 1520 minutes or so half of that eyes closed half of that eyes open. So that’s the basic assessment to get resting sort of data and the performance, the attention stuff is a little variable day to day, but it’s easy to interpret. The brain maps are pretty stable day to day, you know, it’s a fingerprint of resources. But they’re hard to interpret because people are weird. So how much theta or alpha or how fast your brainwaves are, is a true thing, looking at your data, but what it means compared to the average person, your age sometimes isn’t quite as discrete. So we have to play this game where we look at your performance, find the outliers, constraints and ideas, go to your brain, find some interesting phenomena, see if they match, and start to narrow down until you can find things you care about. You know, sitting down with your coach across your DEXA scan and functional strength assessment and you know, figuring out where the weak parts are and where you’re going to shave time and where strength needs to happen, essentially. So we have data we can look at, but we did executive function testing where we flashed a number on the screen or spoken over the speakers for about once per second for 20 minutes, it just literally unloading your resources and then doing transient little pushes, changing gears on the stimuli to see if you can pump the gas, you know, activation tone of your resources and pump the brakes, the inhibition of your resources. And for you, we saw really, really strong performance, you know, standard deviation and a half or more above average, for how on you can be your vigilance, your background focus, your quickness, really high, sort of makes sense based on some of your skills and training. But you’ve got a sports car brain in that aspect. We also look at how well you can pump the brakes and not activate when a distractor pops up. This is called response control. You can also think of it as being automatic or reactive or a bit impulsive or something. And you had a really unusual kind of phenomena here where you had really good scores except after about 15 minutes toward the end of that test you you flared out in terms of self control. So you were able to pump the brakes on that too, that kept popping up at a higher and better level than average. And you had something called prudence or carefulness to monitor and adjust that was much better than average and yet, your stamina to pump the brakes, your ability to sit there and hold that inhibitory tone, every moment actually wore out throughout the test and you got more tired, essentially, and that resource was harder. So this is like a high stress. If you’re out in a play environment and you’re in a high stress environment, making decisions, mixing the activation inhibition. There’s some evidence that if you do that for 20 minutes straight, your performance is going to start tailing off in specific information processing and grabbing information quickly shifting gears, that kind of stuff. So, super high performer with a couple of opportunities and fatigue essentially have the resources to maybe optimize,

Speaker 1 5:03
which I think is what drew me, Alisa Haggerty, who was with parsley health at the time, she’s no longer with them was had a serious concussion. And she was the one that introduced me to peak brain. But it was this phenomenon I was experiencing where I do feel very high functioning, high intensity as an athlete, I’d say I’m also, you know, very creative, like ideas tend to flow, you know, through me, particularly in the early half of the day. But there’s there’s bonking, zagging, this unavailability, you know, really in the family life, let’s say from 2pm until 6pm, some of that was blood sugar related, you know, if I wasn’t eating enough, or you know, things like that, and I tried to, you know, be good with my diet and things like that. But under the hood, I was very curious about, you know, this executive function, I just felt like I would, I would achieve a state where life was now coming at me. And I wasn’t really playing with it. Like I wasn’t in the first bit of the day. Yeah,

Speaker 2 5:58
I think that makes sense. Because you have to sort of white knuckle, your resources and stuff in the gas a little bit, you know, push a little harder, I will say that other stuff in your brain. So that was the performance I was describing extremely powerful, with a little bit of fraying, fatigue. But the brain maps look a little more classic. In terms of a couple of big features jumping out when I say classic, I mean, these things called phenotypes or patterns in your data, they’re real things, whether or not they mean for you what they often mean is sort of open for discussion, you’ll know, but we have certain things we can measure that are really there, a couple of yours that I think you probably care about. One of them in particular is your alpha waves, your your idling speed of your brain was dragging in the map, by one and a half standard deviations are running slower in internal processing speed than you should for a person, your age. And aspects of your performance are so high that I don’t really expect to be using average as the metric for you anyways. So if you’re dragging alpha, you know, this, this internal lag for for thinking for clarity, you know, probably is a bit of brain fog creeping up. You may have a touch of classic speed of processing difficulties, which, you know, I’m like twice your age I have, if I had that alpha speed dragging and spreading out, I’d be experiencing delayed recall for words and names and tip of the tongue stuff, little short term memory, loading blips, and that can happen sometimes. But I’m guessing brain fog nonspecific kind of low key tiredness and some stamina issues bonking like you said in the afternoon. That’s sort of what I would predict from your, your alpha waves running slower than

Speaker 1 7:38
average. The name anxiety is definitely something I’ve experienced, heavily.

Speaker 2 7:42
Yeah, reaching for names and words and stuff like that. Yeah. So we see some of that stuff. And then we are and that’s in some of the speeds of alphas and things I have, I have pictures for all this, by the way, I’ll prepare it for you. So to say that, I’ll show him but you can also share them with your people on a show notes kind of format to this couple other things to talk about in your brain maps. And one of them is some extra beta waves a little, you know, activated tone, if you will, a little a little resources that are kind of strong, but might be touch uncomfortable. And then there’s some brainwaves where you’re making extra theta brainwaves a couple of different places. And that can mean that the brain is a bit more automatic. And the circuits are kind of doing their own thing and harder to control. So one is too sloppy and not inhibited enough, perhaps one might be kind of tight and hard to relax like a muscle that’s feeling either weak, or spasm me and a muscle it’s feeling kind of cramped, or with a different relationship to the activation, you know. So your beta waves, beta is a gas pedal a gear, use beta voluntarily, you’re kind of aware of it, you think with it, you feel with it, all this stuff that sensories beta, largely, the conscious mind is a beta phenomenon. And it’s in the teens and up for Hertz, or cycles per second, and your beta. Now, let me just stop folks who don’t know our process for a second. This is cold information, meaning I’m not sort of saying hey, wait, give me all the different medical history please. And, you know, I kind of know you’re a sports guy, and you stuff on the ice, which is pretty awesome. But you know, I have a sense, okay. He’s an athlete. He’s got his bell rung once or twice, you know, hockey has a certain spot in my heart, too. I grew up in Maine. And when I was little, I had a set of Bobby Hills skates autograph. So you know, I have I have a good spot in my heart for hockey, but not real, no real clear sense of like, Are you an athlete, he’s gotten injured before, anything like that. So this is all kind of cold in terms of predicting stuff. That being said, there are some spots in your brain where you make a lot of beta waves and they’re toward the midline, especially the back midline is a little a little bit in the front, mostly in the back. And these are called the cingulate cortices, the anterior posterior cingulate front and back and the cingulate switch are focused around. Now, generally the front of the Rain is the inside self. What you’re thinking about internally, the back of the brain is about the outside world. The cingulate is switchers sort of facilitate your focus on the inside self and the outside world, where your posterior cingulate which is kind of activated a little bit, that’s the part of the brain that does stuff like watch the road Heads up, heads up frisbee, the orienting the alerting and reorienting to the outside world. That circuit that tissue, that resource has a sort of evaluation responsibility in real time as it’s starting to orient to the stuff you’ve got to pay attention to, when we learn the world is not especially predictable or a little unsafe, that part of the brain can cramp up a little bit. And we tend to produce something we call rumination, where we’re stuck in our gut a little bit and worried it’s hard to put that down sometimes. So I don’t know if that’s true for you. But I would predict it’s plausible. What do you think because that’s something you deal with sometimes,

Speaker 1 10:57
you haven’t missed on, on really any of these. And the reason I’ve always been curious about the well being of my brain is I’ve spent, you know, countless hours in a gym, and you know, preparing my body and working on my game and honing my craft, uh, you know, on the ice. I’ve been a pro for 11 years I’ve played, you know, hundreds and hundreds of games, I don’t even know what the number is. And I get this question a family parties and you know, anywhere, you know, how’s your house? Like, what’s what’s going on? You know, how’s your concussion history, you know, and I’ve never missed a game. Now I’ve taken some nasty hits, and I but I’ve never been obviously symptomatic to myself or others. But, you know, I’ll be turning 30 next April. And I’m like, I really am not positive, you know, quality of life, you know, some of this underlying quiet anxiety that rumination you’re speaking of, about, you know, the topic isn’t, I have a few favorites, but it’s not totally topic, dependent. You know, it could be whatever flavor of the week whatever’s on my plate. And I, I think I realized just the extent to which I was trying to train the body and the little bit of juice, I was getting out of that lime. And it was like, what if I could look at this problem from the side or upside down and really look at, you know, the peripheral nervous system. This is something I learned on a podcast, I think it was on the Ben Greenfield podcast, where you discussed this concept of the nervous system that’s outside of bone versus inside of bone. This was not something I knew previously. And I’m into trying to understand HRV like everybody else, I’m into breath work, I might have meditated daily for, you know, multiple years, but then I’m curious what that means to you. I know what it means to me currently, you know, but this concept of influencing the central nervous system was not something I’d had explained to me. And I’m, I’m very excited and and fortunate to have a close friend who’s advocated for what this can look like, in real day to day life, okay, it’s a real thing to be able to go you know, kind of mechanically go in and shift gears a bit.

Speaker 2 13:06
And it’s also while maybe it’s a bit mysterious, and not something that you fully understand. It’s also not at all a blind phenomena, you’ve actually been training your CNS, I mean, the first time you started hitting the gym, you know, the first six or eight weeks was not really about your muscles, it was central nervous system adaptation to heavy lifting, and to straining the system that way, so could learn to adapt. So you’ve been giving that system feedback since you were a baby flopping around, and did it baby push it up and like, well, I can see 12 feet from this angle, holy cow information. And you learn that association neurons at that point, that’s feedback. That’s the same associative learning process we use in Neurofeedback to push the brain around gently and stretch those resources. But in the kid, the the piece of it I think you might be tripping over which I love is that, hey, look, you can look at your brain. And you can learn some things about yourself that are somewhat transparent at a high level. Like for instance, like I see that alpha speed being dragged, which is that delayed recall for information. Now I appreciate that it’s just a resource, and we definitely should change it and we’ll go after it with you. But you know, being not quite 30 That’s kind of a lot of Dragon speed. Like if you were 45 or 50, with word finding issues. Yeah, okay, whatever normal typical stuff, maybe don’t tolerate it, but it’s closer to like bone density and some abdominal fat than it is a true difficulty. But at 2930 years old, you know, you’re dealing with a bottleneck and resources and it’s worth working out so to speak. So we saw that when we saw the back midline beta, which is a bit of that lifeguard in high gear, there’s a touch of front midline, not quite as activated but the front midline to the anterior cingulate, and when the anterior gets a little bit activated, we tend to think of the same things again and again. So we are separate or get a little obsessive. So you know, your mind sometimes I would guess is playing ping pong with that sort of stuff that bothers you? Did you hear I heard you to worry, I’m worrying to hear I heard and you know, stuff probably resonates here and there sometimes when it starts to bother you. So the singlets are part of the default mode network, the self reflective awareness. You’re smiling, because it’s true, right? Some of this stuff rings true.

Speaker 1 15:16
Yeah, I am. And you, I have opportunities, I did a genomics profile. To understand epigenetically I think the company was you treants with, I think it was years ago, Dr. machmood, Muhammad was awesome. Very much like, speaking with you totally in the dark, gave me my genetic profile. And for an hour, we had a phone call where he told me about me, and you know, he didn’t medicine. And we integrated, you know, a lot of different practices that have made my life better made my performance better made my marriage better. And this is, you know, maybe the nickname and like the dog walking phenomenon, we’re all walked the whole dog and I’m like, Oh, my God, I just had this conversation has not stopped from the second I stepped outside my door, like I missed the trees. You know, I didn’t pay attention to anything else other than let’s say it’s, uh, I’m not happy with the way my skates are fitting right now. And I’m concerned that something news coming up or a coach said something to me, and this came up in the epigenetics conversation, he’s like, you know, you’re a perfect candidate, to do what you do, which is show up every day, this Kaizen concept of trying to get 1% Better, he’s like, that is not difficult for you, that is not boring for you, you have this ability to stick with something for a long time, because you’re a perfect candidate for marriage, you can really find the same person interesting. He’s like I have, you know, certain candidates where he’s like, if they don’t have, you know, game seven on the line, you know, a million dollars on a poker game, they need this super high intensity life to not be bored stiff. So it’s interesting to understand the contrast and come at the problem from different perspectives, and you’re picking up the same thing. Well,

Speaker 2 16:54
let’s see if I can guess one or two more things from your data. So you’ve got a blob of theta brainwaves, theta is sort of automatic, let’s think this release and turns the tissue on. So the tissue is very modular in the brain in the cortex. And it tends to operate in very small modules that do specific things and share their their resources with other modules. And the modules turn on using beta go into neutral using alpha and release using theta, they take the brakes off using theta, you got a lot of theta an awful lot on the left mid part of the brain called the central cortex. And that part of the brain has a couple of really interesting qualities. And having a lot of theater there can get in the way, the primary way can get in the way I don’t see for you, which is kind of interesting. And that is background focus, or sustaining your attention when things are boring. I see not only not a problem in that, but a superlative, like a strength, a crazy powerful resource and just locking in and letting the information just, you know, absorb it without needing it to necessarily be highly intense kind of what you just described that your geneticist was able to pick up on this little lock in your your focus really interestingly. So that being said, the spot in the left side of the brain that makes data for you. And for many people, when it does that, it also gets in the way of something called sleep maintenance, or staying deeply asleep and getting all of your rest all your slow wave sleep built up while you’re sleeping. So I would guess part of this alpha that’s draggy and the word finding and some brain fog and some lack of reserve in the afternoon, has a quality where you’re actually tiny bit asleep all the time when you’re awake, and you can’t dive into the deepest sleep at night, and maintain the deep chunks of deep sleep the same way as you might want to. And so you end up a little bit like wired and tired all the time, essentially. Yeah,

Speaker 1 18:45
yeah. Yeah, the wired and tired phenomenon is really interesting because what it what it feels like as an athlete is you’ll you’ll show up, I find it’s slow to wake up. So let’s call it the first 10 to 15 minutes, you know, really slow. I’ve been evaluating my relationship with caffeine. I’ve been known as a craft coffee guy. I do like the Chemex every morning, I’m super into it, everyone. The Habits been reinforced people gifted to me, you know, companies send things to me so so if I’m gonna put the stops on that this is a part of my identity that needs to die and I’ve been chewing on it. That’s besides and I’ve you know, I’ve listened to your podcast

Speaker 2 19:18
or you neuroscientists would never countenance telling you to remove coffee or caffeine without a serious cardiac or other problem to screen it out. No, no coffee is good for you.

Speaker 1 19:28
I feel that way and I I’m trying to make this podcast not a well what about for the next 90 You know, next 45 minutes?

Unknown Speaker 19:37
What about coffee? No,

Speaker 1 19:38
there’s no tropic What about this? So and you show up to the gym, you’re you’re in it, you’re ready to rock and there’s a fall off where you can maintain a certain level of intensity or decision making. And it is funny because I’m so I’m strong enough in the Jim and have enough experience and kind of fake it. I can I can perform at a really high level and people may not know is my best on the ice, it’s you know, CNS wise, it’s a much higher demand, you’re on these stilts, you’re at a threat for falling all the time. Like it’s like a tremely, stressful sport being in, you know, playing hockey. And that’s where I get this really honest feedback of, you’re not your best flat out. And so it is really interesting that you’re saying and do you think a lot of this is innate? And I know we’re speaking for the first time and this is the first queue eg of mine, you’re seeing? Or could some of this revolve around the fact that I take as much impact as I do. And concussion history? Is this a is this a combo? Yeah,

Speaker 2 20:46
it’s a mix. The dragging speed of processing is not your native speed that’s acquired. I don’t know if it’s because you’re too stressed out non sleeping deeply, or a couple of bits of wear and tear have produced some residual, you know, delta, which means you can’t sleep deeply. But there’s a fog phenomena that looks acquired. I don’t know why it’s there. It’s just as likely to be if I didn’t know you were a hockey player who was at a high level and got your bell rung a few times here. And there historically, I would believe that it was basic concussion, I believe that it was fatigue, I believe it was concussion or COVID, or chemo or mold or lime, or there’s about 1000 things that create brain fog. And they’re kind of nonspecific, at an EEG level, you can kind of tell something’s going on. But you can’t really tell exactly what or why it’s there. Now, you don’t have to know what or why it’s there. Because you’re trying to spot a phenomenon you care about from like, oh, wow, there’s some fog here or you foggy? And you’re like, Yeah, well, then you care about it. Great. Let’s push it around. We don’t really care why it’s there, unless something’s keeping it stuck, you know. But with your history, there’s some plausible reasons for it, especially to the patterns of your theta. And some of the other slow brainwaves. While you do have a blob of it. In the left side for sleep, maintenance and depth of sleep and strong clarity and things. You’ve also got a lot of theta, across the back of the head, when you close your eyes, it kind of just swells up into big slow brainwaves and goes kind of idle back there. And it’s oddly sort of turning off, it’s oddly sleepy. And I think what we’re probably seeing is, you know, some of the thing related to the fog you’re experiencing, and it’s somewhat plausible that you fell back and hit your head at some point, especially when doing skates. I have fallen back and hit my head on the ice as a kid like I have done that injury as a 10 year old you know, who did not stop on skates yet and was you know, way outclassed on the ice. Back in the in the late 70s, early 80s, before we had helmets even mandatory for the peewee leagues and things you know. So it’s plausible there that you have a lot of this visual tissue in the back of the head that that rounds out the powers down when you close your eyes because it’s tired essentially. So I see the sleep maintenance I see the fatigue I see the brain stressing the other big thing I’m seeing is there’s theta more of this automatic release phenomena happening toward the front right of the head. And I don’t know if this feature is important to you or not. You’re making lots of theta there but again, it could be nothing it could be interesting the the frontal lobes and the corners here they kind of operate together the dorsal lateral to the edges here on the corners of the frontal lobe left and right and you can think of them like a like the porch of a house with a happy little kid in the left going hey world coming here. I want to I want to get into it. And on the right front corner is a grumpy old man going man All right go away. It’s not because of me alone too hard. No, that’s gonna suck. And it’s the approach versus the void system you balance based on how resource energetic, interested excited, you might feel safe, you know, having lots of faith on the right front corner economies that grumpy old man has gone worse than grumpy. And now he’s actually kind of frozen up a little bit and feeling overwhelmed at times. So I would guess that at times just from the data that you maybe get a sense of dread that creeps in and kind of a heaviness and a not a quick anxiety but like a weighty kind of anxiety. Does that sound somewhat plausible?

Speaker 1 24:12
Yeah. And so I only have my mind to kind of remember back to you know, what sort of brain status was I at what physically did I feel like and I’ll keep old hockey footage old training footage old gear around just in case I picked something up you know, maybe my sticks gotten long and that’s weird. I’m not sure why that that’s happened I’m having a tough time with pucks in my feet or you know I’m not I’m not moving well let me see you know what in the past is really worked well for me in it I call it like this. I have talked about this with other people on the podcast as well like hell is there’s a there’s a special place in hell where you have stressors or goals and you you don’t want to take action again, you know towards them. But you also don’t want to kind of take your medicine rest either. So it’s like you don’t want to partake in stress, but you don’t not want to partake in stress. And that is not, that’s a handcuff.

Speaker 2 25:11
Yeah, and, I mean, I think there, we often want to try, you know, you’re pushing back you’re trying towards, you’re always the effort is so especially for an athlete who’s, you know, here you have in your blood, this, this desire to lean in, lean through, develop Excel, break boundaries, so, having to manage some of those limits in a real way and move through them, you know, but again, for the brain, I don’t want you thinking about when I show you your brain stuff, you know, historically, and deeply, we often find problems, you find difficulties like that back midline can get in the way, it can be a little bit annoying. And there’s a few other things that are probably annoying, but because we see them in your maps, this is kind of no different than looking at, you know, some functional stuff you want to change in your body and gun yet, let’s work on that bone density, or that, you know, muscle strength in that arm or whatever, that’s a little lag in these days. So you can think of you know, this is closer to rehab for the twisted knee or something that you have to deal with more than fixing a disease process. Because most of the things we deal with in our brain, I mean, you cingulate are not disease processes for you, they’re powerful, and a little uncomfortable. Because that happens, you know, the back midline can be a lifeguard who’s enjoying it, it can be a bit of a trauma response, or threat sensitivity as well, or anything in between. And the front midline can be a highly focused CEO. Or it can be a little OCD, or both, or neither, it can just work fine for you at its, you know, more active than average level. So as you navigate your brain data, look through things and see big features, the stuff to focus on is sort of like oh, and I want to change that. Not so much. Oh, my God, something’s different than average, or there’s something in the way, because people are a little bit unusual. So the gross stuff, the big stuff from your brain maps are this fatigue phenomena? I think the, to kind of get back to your question about acquired versus, you know, innate, the anxiety stuff, the front midline, the back midline, you’ve also got some activation behind the right ear, a part of the brain called the temporal parietal junction, which I call the Princess and the Pea, because it kind of maps the world into the mind. And when it’s kind of active, you like can’t miss any subtle sensory things, your friend shooing from six blocks away, and that dog barking, you know, at the neighbor’s house, you all kind of drink it in. These are super powers, this is a special kind of human brain, the brilliant kind of add on, you know, fire a tiny bit kind of hot, you know, maybe ADHD, maybe anxious, maybe a little bit, you know, out there in extreme human performance, maybe all that at once. And none of the labels really fit like you looked impulsive on the performance test. And yet, you’re performing better than most humans, somehow, like just right at the edge of reframing. But up until that moment, you are way out of the bell curve in your performance, which isn’t a thing that attention usually doesn’t tire out. And so you develop this ability to, you know, bear down with some very powerful resources. So you probably started off able to scan the world and evaluate better than most people hyperfocus better than most drink information in and then follow that theta that’s in the middle cortex, central cortex. That’s your ability to go boom, pattern, boom, interesting information, and shift to the novelty shift the pattern. When that gets extreme, we call it ADHD, but yours isn’t ADHD level, it’s just sort of just below that. And operating almost like a superpower. And my guess is, if you hadn’t have had had some concussion history, or sleep quality issues, or whatever’s going on with the fog, this would all be a serving you and not in the way. And that’s the difference between, you know, looking at your brain with a doctor, and your coach and your scientist. It’s I’m I’m here to teach you how to look at your data. And we’ll do that privately and offline deeply, probably. But I’m here to teach you to read your data so that you become your own expert. And, you know, hopefully in a few weeks, we’ll get your speed of processing back up and your quality of sleep and making me feel chill and balanced and poised and focused. But great. That’s all stuff we do in neurofeedback, I’m a little more concerned about like systemically and for benefit for you that you know how to look at your brain data next year or the year after the year after that. So that as you control the machine and pull the levers and build the resources and stretch stuff and you know, maybe another concussion, you have tools to navigate what’s going on. And you don’t have to sort of like find the right doctor who has the right answer. That’s the problem with doctors. They have to be right. You know, coaches coaches don’t have to be right. They have to iterate. They’re they’re heading you towards your goals. They’re seeing what works. They’re trying things they’re they’re functionally focused, and scientists aren’t right. They’re trying to disprove things you know, a lot of your brain map Preview is like, here’s the thing. It’s plausible. Can we disbelieve that? Oh, we can’t. That’s annoying that without that one’s annoying. Okay, you experienced that. And, you know, we’re trying to like knock down ideas, not sort of shoehorn in the diagnostic labels that I figured out about you from into data, you know that that’s not the directionality here. So once people stopped being attached to like, oh, my gosh, what’s wrong with me? Which label is it? What are the unusual features of diet, you know, once you get away from that perspective, you can start thinking about your brain activity, kind of like your lipid panel or your personal you know, records in this in the gym, or whatever you’re noticing for your case, you’ve identified the pinnacle of CNS, PNS, automatic motor, pre motor, you, you identify that when you’re on your skates, on the ice, doing that thing takes everything. I among the hardest sports to do is baseball among the hardest things a human ever has to do is hit an actual baseball. So when you’re not on the ice, I encourage you to go and stretch yourself in a batting cage, and see what you notice there. Because it’s gonna stretch you some some similar stuff. But because you’re not in motion, it’s almost going to give you another background on the backdrop of like intervention or testing to figure out where things are changing. So you know,

Speaker 1 31:23
yeah, I believe baseball is about 15. And a pretty high level, we had some guys go on to play pro and quite a few Division One players. And I think it’s, so I will do that I’m very excited, maybe we’re interested

Speaker 2 31:33
in hitting a hitting a ball coming at you 90 miles an hour is among the hardest things an athlete will ever have to do as a human body. It’s right up there. So I those are the big things. There’s some stress the stuff that probably built in because you’re brilliant, and one of those, you know, humans who drinks and all the information, and tends to get a little bit on edge because of it. And then there’s the fatigue stuff. But I think what this means is the stress, the stuff is compensatory, the way we’re seeing it lit up and kind of cramped up is a compensatory resource, you pushing through the fog and fatigue, and you’re doing it just fine executive function, I can not see the fog and fatigue and your performance unless I look very, very, very carefully and see hints of it like you’re really high performer. So that lets us really narrow in on the things that are driving fatigue and the brain maps that are likely to be most important for you. And that becomes the deltas in the alphas. So you’re a sports car driving around with the emergency brake on, and you get your foot on the gas a little bit to make up for it. And you still get we’re going all the time ahead of most cars most of the time. But you might take it on a mailbox or two on the way there if you’re not careful, you know, kind of thing. So there’s just power, I think it’s as

Speaker 1 32:49
I have used that ability to pattern recognize and synthesize on the nutrition side to kind of sort through what’s worked, what hasn’t worked, I’ve tried, you know, more things and most, you know, failed with a bunch of I’ve done that on the physiological side, I’d say from a training perspective, I have a much deeper understanding than than most players about what is it? I’m trying to train? What is it? You know, where am I screwing this up? How can I do better, less? How can I do more to optimize my results without doing as much busy work, but it says celebration of agency because concussion and hockey, it does read like a death sentence today and employers are concerned I get asked if you know I have a two year old son might be waking up during the next little bit. So hopefully we don’t hear him. But you know, people ask me Will he play and I really applaud the mission you’re on. I think this was really a macro goal of the podcast and sitting down today, it was selfishly, I’d love to learn how to train better and how to get some of this fatigue gone, and do all that. But I really want to invite the hockey community to consider their relationship with their brain to be as plastic as it is with the body. And then we can train it in these different ways. And we might have to be Justin, you know, 20 years ago, personal training was not commonplace in the NHL in Brock and it’s become so and you know, maybe the next wave is is investigating who the right people the right coaches are to equip yourself with. And your performance team or my performance team on the CNS side on the nervous system side. On the meditation side on the breathwork side, that might be you know, a little bit less mystical for people in terms of port of entry. But I think that’s from a from a zoom out perspective, what I’ve been most excited about.

Speaker 2 34:37
And, you know, in hockey too, it’s not all or nothing. I mean, people ask me if you had a kid, would you let them do XY and Z sport? And I don’t know is a short answer for some things like I’m not sure I’d send a kid down the path of football at this point, knowing what I know, or even soccer and I work with NFL players and I work with international football players and you know soccer players There’s a lot of joy and power and beauty in that game in those athletes in that in that aspect of human performance and I wouldn’t want to take it away from those people and their path but I think the repetitive head injury stuff the stuff where it’s built into the game football and soccer it’s hard and rugby it’s hard to countenance that but you shouldn’t really be getting too much body to body you know head impacts ballistic stuff not as much yes you do get some in hockey but when you’re really playing the game reasonably well even little aggressively you shouldn’t be bouncing off the ground to too much

Speaker 1 35:39
Yeah, and I mean, it’s a big enough problem that it deserves to be attacked on all fronts right like this should be a conversation around skills coaches this should be a conversation around people with like, you know, Dr. Andrew hall there should be there should be considerations every day with your your personal trainer, if you’re in there four or five days a week this is something that deserves some some freewill, some attention pointed at it.

Speaker 2 36:02
But if it’s not a thing you’re like, if you’re out there as a block and linebacker or whatever in football, and you end up getting yourself hit 60 times every game. It’s hard to manage that level of risk and wear and tear but if you’re someone who gets their bell rung or or you know, gets in a fight every so often, you know a couple times that you hear you have a mild concussion, you can manage that risk. I have a couple of professional skiers who about once every two to three years, they come in with a pretty significant cushion from the ski slopes. And usually it’s offseason, and they rebuild their brain and by the next season, they’re competing again. And they’re able to compete comfortably knowing that they have a tool to address a concussion or some wear and tear or if they need to, they can rebuild some stuff. They got assessment tools, they got neurofeedback, so some of these folks, I I’m okay with my skiers going back out there, again back in a couple guys that are NFL players, and they love it. And they’re going back to play soon because we did neurofeedback. But that’s the dignity of risk stuff. I’m not going to tell a hardcore athlete, they can’t go, you know, be hardcore. But in hockey, hockey players are all kind of hardcore. You don’t necessarily need to get concussed. In the course of doing your job. Well, it happens, but it’s not like, necessarily, I’m gonna completely agree. Yeah, so I sort of feel like now you have strategic resources to balance that risk. Like I would let a kid of mine play hockey, or something else that may have had injuries, but doesn’t necessarily make that guaranteed necessarily that you know, because if you get, you know, there’s this study showing in soccer, you do one heading drill for 20 minutes, and you show concussion markers and elevated GABA for 48 hours, and reduced memory function for 48 hours from one heading drill, and soccer. It’s hard to send a kid into that environment with developing brain and all this stuff. But okay, you know, as long as the Hockey League is reasonably polite, and we aren’t encouraging, you know, a lot of aggression on the ice, I’m okay with it. I’d be I’d be down with it. But the point is having those tools, it’s you know, it’s understanding how things work. It’s knowing what the bottlenecks are, knowing what you go after. And then you can decide about your level of risk, right?

Speaker 1 38:17
So it’s funny, I used to say, when people would ask me like, I don’t know, maybe I’ll point my kid to soccer or something. And then actually, I came up on that date, because it’s just seemed like a gentler sport. And then I really didn’t consider the heading to

Speaker 2 38:29
legal geography is it’s not gentler for girls, they get injured much higher. They have more damage and more injuries than than boys doing soccer. Interesting, because they’re just as strong, but not quite as durable. Yeah,

Speaker 1 38:41
yeah. Interesting now, so what is it? Let’s discuss some of those tools. What is it about neurofeedback, that you’ve, I mean, it’s really your life’s work at this point. You know, alongside other things, I mean, well, what does it you love so much about neurofeedback? I

Speaker 2 38:56
love that it makes change rapidly and that you feel the change. I mean, it’s this mysterious, but not at all blind phenomena. If you start exercising your brainwaves, you know, like, Yeah, whatever. This is some weird. Wait a minute, huh? Oh, I feel different. Oh, hey, wait, this is interesting. And it rapidly takes the end. You have to do it by validating that, you know, let’s say I’m gonna try to train your data down the left side and your made up in the left side for sustained focus and deeper sleep. What matters is not if I think it will work. It’s did you get deeper sleep? And do you feel really focused after this session? And if I hear that from you, great. Let’s do some more. And if four sessions in you’re like, well, Doc, I’m a little too focused. I had a hard time turn my mind off. I couldn’t. Okay, we’ve overshot a little bit let’s back off. And this is kind of like calling your trainer from the whole foods and saying dude, this eggs all over the floor. My arms are noodles. What are you doing with me? Okay, well back off the crowbar. Sorry. Like when it comes to brain training you you will elicit effects in sleep, stress, attention, speed of processing, creativity, emotional access. It gives you control over some of those things. And I really feel like a lot of the stuff involving the brain the mind, we’ve pathologized and or we’ve talked about as if it’s only problematic and most of the things the brain does that cramp up on us that get in the way are not diseases. They’re existing resources that are stuck in a mode, front midline, obsesses back midline, ruminate behind the right ear has social or sensory irritability. Left side, vigilance tissue tend to get in the way of focus and deep sleep right side executive function tissue tends to get in the way of pumping the brakes. When things are distractible, you know, like squirrel kind of stuff, ADHD stuff is more right side. But these are all things that you can have a different relationship with. And I show you your brain activity, it stops being this thing happening to you or a label someone’s given you or a big giant scary phenomena you might be experiencing. And you have a perspective on it and data. And you know, you can be just as as suffering, you can have just as much pain, the problem is just as real seeing once you see it and data, but it’s kind of hard to feel guilty about it. When you see it in data, it’s kind of hard to be ashamed or as overwhelmed when you see or, like I can show your alpha speed running a standard deviation and a half below average, you know, you’re having a little bit of word finding and some sluggish processing, when you’re not loaded up with attention. It’s not a new thing for you, I shouldn’t tell you new stuff. But if I’m like, Look, here it is it’s just your brain. What do you want to do about it? Is this important to you? It puts you in a different relationship with a bit of suffering, because you know, the mechanism I teach the neuroscience. And I give you strategies to start going, huh? Do I notice anything and you know, you’re progressive and iterative instead of just deciding ahead of time what is true and diagnosing and the agency thing is different to me, I’m I teach you how your brain works, then I’m thrusting all the power back up on you, instead of creating this container that a therapist might and saying, here’s the label, here’s the thing you’re experiencing. Let me now do some top down, you know, restructuring, I kind of think there’s definitely room for therapy and many, many aspects of our lives. But I also think that many of the things in the brain in mind, we should think about as resources we can train, not just as illness or things happening to us blindly. So

Speaker 1 42:24
I think the mental training in the mind training, the brain training is really going to you kind of have this, this agency this well, what are we going to do about it sort of approach. And in sports sciences, this occurred, you know, the players used to show up, they play every game, they would train very hard. And these are the expectations of our elite athletes. And this was unwavering. And then Sports Science caught on and got into this, like, hyper monetization, oh my god, we’re not we’re noticing some pelvic dysfunction, you probably should sit out tonight. You know, we can’t lift weights anymore. We can’t, we can’t stress our athletes anymore. They’re all overstressed. And we kind of lost the plot. And now there’s been this, you know, recalibration where, you know, athletes are, you know, taught and reinforced to get after a little bit. And very similarly, where, you know, we have this impact, we have these things that are going to occur to us, hopefully not in the field of play, but there are things that we can do about it. You know, with neurofeedback, being you know, something I found really exciting. And I think you really nailed it with the guilt because I would the name anxiety, for example, I would I would meet old family members, people that I know very, very well. And their name, I would, I would struggle without it feel tremendous guilt, like I clearly just don’t care about their name enough. I didn’t do enough of like the card game trick where I put their name and like an important place in my house growing up and I can go open the cupboard and remember where that is. And I’m like, there’s, there’s got to be a better way. And I’m really excited about the work we have ahead of us.

Speaker 2 43:56
Yeah, me too. I, my guess is just a few sessions in, you’re probably just barely starting to notice any sort of subtle effects in the sessions. But this is about where it kicks off. So we should be able to elicit some more moments of clarity, some deeper sleep, you’ll probably have a few nights of really intense dreams where they’re like really active and really varied. That’s a plasticity boost. When your dreams kick into high gear after neurofeedback. It’s kind of like after the gym going, ooh, whoo. I feel it. Oh, nice. It’s that like stretch feeling or that slight ache you feel it’s a good thing. In neurofeedback, you have dreams that are really visually vivid and detailed to have themes and tend

Speaker 1 44:38
to have been missing for me for a long time. I really haven’t had many dreams where I remember them particularly growing, waking up. Or were like the residue at least have the feeling maybe you can’t remember the dream sometimes but you know how you felt? Yeah,

Speaker 2 44:51
that’s, that’s a thing that happens when you’re deep sleep is shorthand. You need to make big bursts of deep sleep to create the growth hormone to then make the REM to then come You know, my sorry the REM happens anyway, with a deep sleep without that you aren’t consolidating or storing the experience of deep sleep, which means you’re dreaming and then forgetting it because deep sleep isn’t happening to help you store it basically or have that experience. But that should come back almost almost always. A lot of neurofeedback is centered around a particular frequency in the brain called sensory motor rhythm SMR, which is 12 to 15 hertz, and that is the frequency you use to stay deeply asleep, but also to not be physically impulsive to control your body perfectly. So the cat in the windowsill watching birds that completely steel body and laser like focus, that’s a highest Ammar state literally. And that compared to theta, when SMR is low, and theta is high, that’s what we call ADHD. When you’re disinhibited and reactive to stimuli, so you have the kind of interesting brain that makes a ton of theta but when you’re loaded up it goes away. So you can like turn off high degree like like seriously crazy high amounts of distractibility that do not get in the way when you’re on task.

Speaker 1 46:07
Well, that when they introduced I forget the gentleman who who helped me I think it was Austin actually helped me with the attention test. And he’s like, you might get bored. I’m like, I’m not getting bored. I’m like, no, yeah. I’m gonna kill this. Yeah, yeah. It’s wonderful.

Speaker 2 46:22
And yet and yeah, your brains got a little bit of that classic distractible, inattentive, a little bit spacey, but you also the other flavor of like, the brilliant, slightly anxious slightly, you know, reactive mode. So this is a special flavor humans get it’s not exactly anxiety. It’s not exactly ADHD. Those are two simple labels. You’re a unique person, the map is not the territory brain map, not the brain. But when I can spot cold, rumination per separation, touch irritability, word finding issues, delayed recall, you know, lack of sleep maintenance, lack of quality sleep, when I can spot that cold and a brain map. Now we believe him because because if I can see him and you believe them, okay, I believe them too. And those are things you can change Neurofeedback pushes those waves around like you have theta, I’ll show you that’s about three, maybe more standard deviations on a bell curve higher than average. It’s bright red blobs on the datasets. And you can usually change or exercise that tissue to the tune of about one standard deviation, one Z score every other month every 20 or 25 sessions. So it might take us some time, a few months, but in a few months, you can actually change your executive function control and your sleep regulation permanently. So I would expect somewhere over the next few weeks, there’ll be this odd phenomena of you sleeping more deeply when you’re asleep and waking up more thoroughly when you’re awake. to having more stamina on the second half of the day. That should be the one of the first things we notice actually is kind of a broad shift. As the speeds and the sleep regulation really starts to shift I bet I bet that gives you most of what you were hoping Neurofeedback would do actually based on your brain. I

Speaker 1 48:10
mean, that sounds like a trip to Maui. I guess I shouldn’t say that with the fires but a trip to somewhere wonderful. Tahiti almost magical place Maui but our are there lifestyle factors other things that I can do to kind of put this Neurofeedback on steroids and really try to enhance the results any best which way I can,

Speaker 2 48:30
you can you can now you have some mindfulness practice meditation practice already we have teachers we build in some privates. So we have a couple of private sessions for that you can get some additional instruction if you need it. Or there’s a practice group every Monday night 830 Your time I think, in the evening so you can join that and practice meditation for 1015 minutes every morning huge for building plasticity. So I consider this stuff part of the minimal viable practice and MVP, but don’t just skip in the morning you get up you have to can maybe brush your teeth can you do five sun salutations Can you meditate for five minutes? Like what is the minimum viable here and it’s your devotion not your workout you gotta get in Don’t you know if it feels like a burden you’re committing to too much kind of stuff start small and make it regular. But yeah, so that’s that’s the good stuff. The Sleep hacking stuff don’t eat before bed to allow your blood sugar to drop which lets growth hormone Bill build much better. So you know the classic stuff. There are other heavy lifters you can bring to bear to accelerate neurofeedback. Among them are. There’s another form of neurofeedback, we may have sent you one I haven’t checked your kit inventory. But there’s a blood flow device called passive infrared hemo encephalography. It’s a forehead sensor and uses infrared cameras to measure blood flow in real time. So you can learn to get a vascular pump of your brain to train the fatigue and stuff you’re experiencing. It’s another form of neurofeedback, but I’ll make sure we have one of those for you. hyperbaric medicine, depending on your access to resources As hyperbaric is kind of expensive, but very impactful when you stack it, it’s extremely impactful. If you’re going to add that Be careful with neurofeedback, that can mix in a very weird way. So my rule of thumb when doing hyperbaric and most bio Hacks is dive last in a day. It’s your last, your last intervention never died before other interventions, because you give the system too much oxygen and it changes in an unreal, unreasonably fast way. Or you hyper normalize your brain. And then you don’t train the weak things the same way as you might otherwise. So be careful when when mixing hyperbaric with other bio hacks dive last in a day of interventions. But I liked the other hormetic stressors as much as hyperbaric and those are much cheaper. So I would encourage that sort of sauna and and or ice bath kind of lifestyle where you’re doing to to force on as a week. And, you know, if you if you hate ice baths, no problem. Instead, do contrast cooling, where your sauna routine is 1520 minutes to heat up and flush five minutes to cool down in a cool shower back in the sun and heat up second time. So it’s like a pump and a vascular pump. But the hormetic stressors I think are huge. And I think that building those things in saunas, ice or contrast cooling hyperbaric if you have access to it, and on that note, I do want to kind of plant a stake in the ground here, I’m not a big fan of soft chambers of mild hyperbaric, I don’t think they do very much. I think for soft tissues outside of bones, they can, and tissues that have blood flow, like your muscles that can do a lot. So for doing rehab and stuff, they can be a nice tool, or for lung stuff, a really nice tool. But for deep tissues without blood flow, like the brain, most of the brain, and joints, I think you need to heart chambers need to atmospheres is my take on it. And so all the biohackers will have their soft chambers, that’s awesome. But I would say to atmosphere is breathing in pure oxygen is is the only hyperbaric worth sort of like bothering with in some ways unless you’re dealing with skin and soft tissue stuff. And then beautiful soft chambers are amazing for wound healing, muscle healing, that kind of stuff. So beyond that, though, I think that some of the bio hacks that are most impactful, you know, lifelong, the stuff your mother tells you to do are the things for many of us that we need to build in. But they become a little bit nuanced person to person. Like there’s the big topic of diet nutrition, but that’s as much functionally serving your goals as it is sort of spiritual and ethical. So tends to be a pretty nuanced topic, person to person, there is no best diet. And the best diet for like body transformation, body re competence and resistance recovery is very different than someone like you who you’re gonna try to feel high bursts of high output and healthy long term brain aging. So those are all different. In terms of goals, I would want to tailor some of that to you. I often later in the process help people dial in some nootropic or supplement strategies that help lubricate things further. Your brain is one that would probably benefit or enjoy. I don’t know if this is true, but you might enjoy an acetyl cysteine. There’s these front midline and back midline hotspots and the one on the front of specialty tends to be lubricated by NAC and reduce our reduce intrusive thoughts and obsessiveness and the mind spinning a little bit and it tends to be enjoyable for some of us. And then there’s another compound coming out later this year. And I have no relationship with this company. In spite of how positive I’m about to encourage everyone to go check them out. But there’s a new version of omega three fatty acids being formulated that seems to be pretty magical in terms of getting through the blood brain barrier and causing recovery, supporting recovery and brain damage and an eye damage central nervous system because most omega threes can’t get through the blood brain barrier very well very low penetration, but there’s a new form LPC hyphen DHA or LPC, hyphen, EPA. And so it’s phosphatidylcholine bound to Omega three omega three fatty acids. And because of that you’re getting a 6x penetration into the brain. And the research is powerful showing recovery from brain injuries and I damage in animal models been really powerful research. And as a company whose brand is listo VEDA li SOV eta, and I think the stuffs hitting the shelves later this year. Any of my clients that have brain stuff, I’m a big fan of omega threes. But the landscape is a bit iffy with terms of what’s out there and oxidation rates and what’s actually useful and there’s a lot of noise and the Omega three landscape. I think this is going to be another iterative you know leveling up of using fatty acids the same way mega threes were the first time we discovered them, you know culturally in this country 30 or 40 years ago kind of thing. This is another inflection like that. And then beyond that, I mean we’ll make some changes the neurofeedback would I’d rather make permanent changes then just tweak for you, but depending on your goals depending on long term depending how it feels. There’s a compound for biohacking called such a choline, which is a choline compound. And you will get a speed of processing boost and a word finding boosts from that.

Speaker 2 55:19
It’ll make your reaction times a tiny bit faster, I’d bet for you. I kind of think it might be a little overstimulating for you and you may find it makes you less smooth, so I’m not sure it’s a good compound. Again, I’d rather change the bottleneck and get rid of it than just patch over it. But Silkolene is pretty good for long term brain Aging and Brain Health and it seems to be pro myelination helps the brain re myelin ate over time. So if you’ve got some wear and tear and oxidative stress, it’s a little extreme, you may have issues with myelination, or with oxidative stress damage. So adding some CDP choline in a few times a week in the morning, we mildly stimulating will speed you up and will maybe help your brain make more thick fat and happy fatty tissue. And so these are my longer term strategies, you know, omega threes silicone liens, and then managing things like this is not important for you or for any of the athletes listening. But you got to manage the sort of inflammatory aspects of sugars and free sugars carbs are okay depends on the athlete and the strategy in your life. You got to manage your macros but you can do a success humans can do a successful macro strategy as long as they aren’t eating high amounts of all three macros. Got one you got to survive and perform well like you really can there are athletes who are vegan, crazy long term distance athletes, they can run giant panniers of vegetables on their 100 mile century rides but like they can do it somehow. You can you can’t do that and have fat and protein high amounts things fall over tissues oxidized. So I think for someone like you know, you it’s pretty moot you know how to dial in your nutrition but if someone’s becoming that high powered machine, you know among the best things you can do is leverage protein and get your good protein in and minimize your your free sugars. You know, you’re easily burned sugars to essentially only food sources that are vegetables and above ground vegetables dominant and fruits and things. But those things are also going to brain healthy general advice not really super important for you because you know, a you know what you need to do and B if you crush a pizza on a Saturday afternoon, it’s not a big deal for someone like you quite as much as it might be for a 60 year old, you know, grandma who has some pre diabetes and you know, it’s a little different landscape. So my biohacking advice would be a little general to you know, manage your your carbohydrate load inflammatory low blood sugar load. I use a device for that, called the biosense measures breath acetone. So you can learn to steer your acetone instead of using finger pricks for keto stuff. This can be useful to for figuring out what kind of car ratios you can handle and dispose of reliably. So you can actually load up on carbs pretty aggressively and remain in like ketosis and get that benefit of easily accessible ketones. But also you can sort of not you know basically kill the sacred cows ignore other gurus and when they tell you can’t have X amount of carbs and instead figure out how much you can dispose off with your muscle mass saying Can your awesome liver and your high output lifestyle you can figure it out using acetone in your breath because it flexes one to two days the enzymatic environment will shift to produce more ketones and burn them in your body to get more acetone blow by so you can kind of figure out the the impact the accumulative impact of two or three lifestyle you know sleep habits and weightlifting and diet macros and things as they start to shift and change your your enzymatic environment for energy you can understeer that and that can be somewhat useful for athletes are trying to game their systems a little bit to confine the edges of their ketosis and their energy thinks that way. It’s

Speaker 1 59:03
very exciting and to wrap up a little bit, I’m nearing the end of an offseason training camps right around the corner. i One of the things I most enjoy neurofeedback is how non invasive it is like I’m not completely gassed after it’s not there’s not a tough sweating involved right like it’s not a physical phenomenon which means it can layer into you know in an already busy training schedule or ramping up you know gameplay I’m very interested you know, let’s say next offseason we’ll evaluate where my brains out I know you’re you know, very into the Vince Deronda and some of the you know fasting protocols and things like that

Speaker 2 59:35
maybe offseason we’ll have to go low carb or carnivore not right now your performance requires carbohydrates, the highest level I think to some extent. But also you know the the neurofeedback should help you recover faster and that you’re just starting now and as you go back into season, I really want you to let me know how you feel after games. Let me know how you feel after extreme output how you feel after a hard workout. What are the next morning especially my guess is, we really know we’re onto something when the energy is coming up, but you also feel like you can handle a lot more without depleting I think that’ll be a real sign we’re onto something. And that should happen, you know, soon. So we’ll see how it goes, which

Speaker 1 1:00:17
is what I want. Like I didn’t want my stressors and problems to go away. I wanted to be able to answer the bell. Well, thank you, Dr. Hill. I really appreciate all your expertise and our time today. We’ll have to do it again. I we did we got all the way to three o’clock when my two year old would be waking up here. But for other players in the in the hockey community. You know, I get a lot of parents of players on here. What’s the easiest way for them to reach out for concern? Yeah,

Speaker 2 1:00:44
so peak Brain Institute is our main But we’re also peak brain la over all the socials. So come check us out all your listeners get a discount if you want to come to one of the offices for brain mapping, or they can use that discount for remote brain training programs because most of our clients never see our offices so you can work with us. We’ll send you brain mapping equipment will map your brain will teach how to do Neurofeedback wherever you are, so just let us know. Wonderful.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:08
Thank you, doctor. I’ll have a great rest of your day. My pleasure.


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